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Post by LordManiMani on Sept 13, 2007 8:47:59 GMT -6
This topic is not about a specific mafia game or sign-ups for a game. Erniewan, if you feel that this topic should go in Site Discussion or General Discussion, feel free to move it there.
I want to talk about Mafia game theory. Whether you post about ideas for mafia roles, or player strategies, or mod strategies, feel free to discuss them here and ask for input from others.
For example, I want to know what fellow game creators/players think about this general-game role I just came up with:
Millionaire (town-aligned) -No special abilities (technically making him a vanilla) until he dies. -Once he's dead, he can write a "will" in his death post. The will can contain any information that the writer wants to write, be that theories, suspicions, information about his role. He can also bequeath any items that he had at the time of death to any other player. -Obviously, this wouldn't work as a mafia-aligned role because then the Millionaire could just say who his/her contacts were.
(an older role) Bard (any alignment) -Whenever he is investigated, he is able to generate a custom response to be given to the investigator. Ex: the Bard is mafia, and the town's cop investigates him. The bard can tell the moderator to return "innocent" or "town" to the cop.
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Post by Erniewan on Sept 13, 2007 8:49:38 GMT -6
Good idea! Yeah, it should go here. I'll post on this in due time.
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Post by Jerzkong on Sept 13, 2007 9:15:08 GMT -6
Theories, you say? I would say it's easier to be Mafia; all you have to do is kill and act innocent.
I like Framers: Mafia-aligned who can make anyone look guilty.
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Post by NPR on Sept 13, 2007 20:09:03 GMT -6
Or Miller, a townie who, if investigated, comes up as mafia, or baby kidnapper, who can make someone vote for who THEY want to.
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Post by Hellfire on Sept 15, 2007 9:42:44 GMT -6
what's the use of the role of a miller though? it's useless to the owner right?
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Post by Jerzkong on Sept 15, 2007 10:45:35 GMT -6
It sounds pretty crappy
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Post by LordManiMani on Sept 15, 2007 13:38:45 GMT -6
The other thing is that the Miller isn't told who he/she is. That is, they don't know they are a Miller. It's pretty much a reverse Godfather.
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Post by Rockwell on Sept 15, 2007 15:54:10 GMT -6
It's a really brutal role for a person.
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Post by Hellfire on Sept 15, 2007 22:20:32 GMT -6
WOW!!! that is one messed up role!!!
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Post by Erniewan on Sept 15, 2007 22:40:50 GMT -6
Yeah, I was a miller once in IRC mafia. Luckily I wasn't investigated. I went the whole game thinking I was a normal townie. But it does fit certain character roles from time to time. Here's the advice I sent to Caleton about modding. Hopefully it doesn't reveal anything, and I hope it fits the topic. It might be useful for people who are modding their own game. One thing I love to do is go through and give the characters roles that fit them well. Here's a site that has a good sized list of role ideas, and you can change them to fit your game: www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0Be sure not to make anyone too powerful either. Always check to make sure that it's possible for both sides to win in a reasonable amount of time. I'm really starting to think that I made you as Claire a little bit too strong, but at least you aren't invincible. If you use independents, I recommend just one or two, perhaps on the same team, perhaps not. Just be sure to make them SKs instead of Survivors, that works better. Also, count how many kills will take place each night. If there are too many, either cut down on the number of kills by restricting the nights they are allowed to kill, or make more defense roles. I've only hosted two games, but the roles I like the best so far are: The vigilante: I'd say limit his kills, or be sure to let him know not to use his power recklessly. A town doesn't want to lose because of a vig. The message sender: As a mod, I love using this role, because it allows for more behind the scenes strategy. If you use this, be sure to put restrictions on it to keep it from ruining the balance. The cop: Use this role, and depending on your analysis, decide how specific to make your results. I personally liked Matt's thinking role which allowed me to make a sort of puzzle for him to figure out before knowing the role, but innocent/guilty probably works best if you're not sure. You can also have the weird cops that get false results, but I've never tried that before. The doctor: This is a great role, and if you want you can make more than one doctor with different types of protection. There's bodyguards who die instead, there's pseudo-docs that only work some of the time, there's ones with a use limit. Either way, check to make sure they will never overpower the mafia. The mafia should still be able to make some kills. The bus-driver: I think this role is fun to use as a mod, but for the players it can be a pain, and confusing. Limit the number of uses. Masons: Two heads are better than one, and masons are fun to play as. Don't make large masonries though, because knowing other roles helps to confirm roles and unbalances the game in the town's favor. Roleblocker: I like to give the mafia a roleblocker to give them a fighting chance against powerful townies. If you want, you can place limits on it. Framer: I also like a way of decreasing the cop's believability. Making someone look guilty when they're not can do the trick. Millers, townies who appear guilty, also work, as well as making a mafiat, maybe the Godfather, look innocent. You can also have a mafia cop, but I wouldn't use them unless they fit the role. Ability thieves: I'm starting to like this role, because it helps keep some abilities in the game that get killed off. Be careful not to make them too powerful though. Limit uses, or maybe let them only take dead people's powers, either way, make sure these roles do not control the game. Personally, I think Ord was too powerful in EB Mafia 2, and though Sylar is pretty powerful now, he has the disadvantage of being independent. Post-restrictions: I like using these, but remember to keep track of them. Threat of death-penalty is usually harsh, so maybe punish them for messing up by blocking their role. Also, don't make their restriction too visible as it may reveal their role to the mafia (Mr. Saturn talk). If you limit length, don't make it too harsh. In my opinion, two mafias don't work well. Keep it pretty simple, and don't use cults either, unless you can balance it. It's all about balance, make sure that neither side has a large advantage. Remember, giving a way to confirm your role adds to your advantage, as well as defense, offense, information, partners, etc. If a mass role claim will easily control the game, be sure to give the mafia some backup names to claim. Of course, in Pokemon, in might not be a problem coming up with your own fake claim. As a mod, treat both sides fairly. The town does use the day to lynch mafia, but make sure they can mislynch once in a while and not be hurt too badly. Regarding deadlines, I rather like the absence of a deadline, as the mafia can't just pull back and wait. On the other hand, you may need to use it to keep discussion moving, because deadlines encourage last-minute action. Never confirm a role, whether in your story or in a summary or as a reply. I messed up when I confirmed Bubble monkey and I regretted it for the rest of the game. Only confirm them if you know for sure they are dead. When you write your stories, only talk about who died, and perhaps how they died. Don't tell about investigations, if someone was blocked, etc. Always use discretion in the information you let out. If you use hints, don't be specific, and don't refer to the number of mafia voting like I did in one of my hints, as that discourages mafia voting and slows everything down. Enforce the rules, and make sure no cheating is going on. Also double check your posts and stories before posting, because mistakes make you feel really bad. Remember to update the vote count fairly often, and if someone asks for it. Prod inactives, especially if asked to, and replace those that never show up. Allow them to lurk if they want though, because that may be their strategy. Here's a guide for modding, I suggest you give it a read: mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5156&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0Anyways, I hope you found all that helpful, and good luck! Remember, the key is balance and fairness. Be respectful of those playing, and help them have a good time. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm not that experienced, but I'm willing to help.
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Post by redearth on Sept 15, 2007 23:04:55 GMT -6
umm..that helped...thanks!! again!!
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Post by Jerzkong on Sept 16, 2007 10:03:22 GMT -6
ooh, yes, I read up that mafiascum website already!
BTW, in Heroes mafia, Ernie, why did you tell the town there were three mafiats?
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Post by Hellfire on Sept 16, 2007 10:07:29 GMT -6
i guess that was a part of bennet's role. no wait, weren't you bennet, jerzkong? if it wasn't for the 3 people thing, no one would have probably guessed that I was mafiat. And if I hadn't volunteered to die, the townies would have won. So I guess the move was good for mafiats too!!!
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Post by Hellfire on Sept 16, 2007 12:50:49 GMT -6
btw, how does the role of an inventor work?
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Post by LordManiMani on Sept 16, 2007 12:58:37 GMT -6
While I usually perfer to come up with my own wacky/crazy mafia concepts, this page (also from mafiascum) is neat to browse and draw inspiration from. Though they really should call it something like Mafia-pedia or Townie-pedia.
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Post by Erniewan on Sept 16, 2007 13:35:02 GMT -6
I did? Idk why, perhaps I just felt that the townies knew already... sorry if that changed anything. The mod can tell how many of each team are, and even which roles the game is limited to, but of course that takes away some of the fun.
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Post by LordManiMani on Sept 16, 2007 13:37:55 GMT -6
Yeah, in one of your narrations, a random guy came and said that Bennet had contacted him before his suicide with the number of mafiosos.
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Post by Caleton on Sept 16, 2007 14:16:52 GMT -6
That was Bennet's role. Remember? It wasn't a mistake.
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Post by LordManiMani on Sept 17, 2007 21:33:08 GMT -6
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Post by Hellfire on Sept 17, 2007 21:36:52 GMT -6
That was Bennet's role. Remember? It wasn't a mistake. But did it have to be revealed? I guess that was a part of his role.
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Post by Jerzkong on Sept 18, 2007 4:50:21 GMT -6
I DID ask how many.... I wasn't informed who I was 'talking' to or that it'll be revealed when I died. I think the random guy was Hiro's dad. He was a businessman, right?
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Post by Erniewan on Sept 18, 2007 6:21:20 GMT -6
I think what happened was I was fishing for flavor stuff to add, and it since it isn't way out there to tell the town how many mafia there are, and since jerzkong knew but hadn't told everyone, I took the opportunity to give them some information. I mean, they lost Peter and Matt and Claire and stuff so I guess I felt the town needed an extra push. But if it really hurt the mafia's game, I won't do it again, though the town would have eventually found out that they were still looking for another mafiat.
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Post by LordManiMani on Oct 13, 2007 13:37:13 GMT -6
The Blind, Deaf, Mute, Comatose and Fully Paralyzed Terminal Cancer Victim: You win no matter what happens, but everyone will be really patronising about it. [/quote]
^I saw this in the Worst Role Ideas topic at MafiaScum forums and couldn't stop laughing.
Also: Leonardo DaVinci: All your post must be written backwards. In Italian.
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Post by Hellfire on Oct 13, 2007 13:41:06 GMT -6
No, I think it kind of made the game more interesting. And yea, the town would have eventually figured it out. I think it worked out well, and the town did need a boost. I mean it was necessary for the town to have a chance and that revelation did give them a chance.
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Post by Hellfire on Oct 13, 2007 13:41:25 GMT -6
^ to ernie
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Post by LordManiMani on Oct 13, 2007 13:53:48 GMT -6
Catch-22 Serial Killer: You are unable to kill unless you have already killed somebody. You win when you have killed somebody.
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Post by Cormac on Oct 13, 2007 14:00:47 GMT -6
That thread is one of the many reasons why MS rules.
Also, some role ideas I have for a post restricted game (open setup obviously)
Comments in brakets:
You are the head-desker. All post must be made by banging your head against the keyboard. gyht6utyghrtfedrffe4 <--Like that. No proof reading or editing them before posting them.
You are the post quoter, you can only quote people's posts.
You are the old man, Your hearing is good, but you lost your teeth! So all your post meed moo mound blike bis.
You are the Deaf Guy. You must read and post in Brail.
You are the Night Speaker. You can only speak during the game's night, and not during the day.
You are the C-C-C-Combo Breaker. You must post 'C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker!' In between when someone is posting multiple times in a row.[they get a vig or something for doing so since this is more or less a role that relies on honesty or something]
You are the Random Shouter. You must shout out some random phrase in the thread for no reason once per real life day. Bonus points if people get mad at you.
You are the 12 year old 1337 speaking kid. You can only speak in macros, internet slang, and links to Youtube.
You are the Flirt.[need a better role name] You must praise, complement, or otherwise flirt with all other players of the opposite gender. If there aren't any other players of the opposite gender, than any other player. You must not have conflicting votes with the people you flirt with.
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Post by Erniewan on Oct 13, 2007 15:17:43 GMT -6
Lol, maybe we'll do one of those Post-restricting games sometime. The post-quoter one sounds especially clever.
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Post by Cormac on Oct 13, 2007 15:24:22 GMT -6
Yes, I was thinking of something along the lines of the roles being open, and the mafia just get generic mafia roles, so they have to fit in by claiming a restriction and sticking to it. Of course, most of the role I made need a little work.
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Post by LordManiMani on Oct 13, 2007 15:30:07 GMT -6
"h" "jnh" -->that's all I got from two consecutive headsmashes (not really smashes). My keyboard must be protected against that.
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