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Post by LordManiMani on May 17, 2009 22:41:58 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 13 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 5 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
DIVE BOMB ATTACK!
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Post by commonyoshi on May 17, 2009 23:34:59 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 13 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 4 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Erniewan on May 17, 2009 23:35:05 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 13 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 5 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14 Thank you LMM, someone that understands.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 17, 2009 23:47:46 GMT -6
That's not cute... It has none of the characteristics of "cute" such as big eyes or round features, things you've already called lame. Maybe your tastes are unnatural... >_> You like "jagged" stuff. A caged bird is a caged bird. You ruin the natural freedom of a bird by keeping it captive, no mater how many recess breaks you give it. A bird is meant to be free and distant from man. An animals such as a bug or dog can be kept in smaller environments and cared for by man without ruining its natural inclination. Or maybe you realize that favorite pokemon are actually subjective like I said in the beginning, but you dont want to admit it so you keep going, calling our tastes unnatural even when the majority of "society", as seen by samples from the list, is on our side. And my subjective tastes say an ugly, jagged yellow bird would fit nicely on your ugly, polka dotted television. Also, you made a strawman. I said I did not like pokemon even I could conceive and draw with my limited artistic abilities. Originality is definitely a plus, but our pokemon have other things going for it.
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 0:14:09 GMT -6
Ok, maybe it isn't cute, but it is certainly cooler. There is no doubt about that.
Oh yeah, throw in some negative opinions while totally dodging the point.
Just because you didn't conceive it doesn't mean you couldn't have. Wooper is based on an actual animal, the Axolotyl, and Delibird is based off of Santa Claus and penguins, Ditto is an amorphous blob that any 4 year old could have come up with, and Paras is a bug with mushrooms (and the other ones I mentioned earlier). You fail to see that a lot of these Pokemon are not totally original by your definition, and thus that argument is moot, especially when Blaziken IS more original than those.
As for the bird/human argument, you seem to be forgetting about falcons and parrots, etc. Just because wild birds don't typically attract to humans doesn't mean they can't be. So in that case, you're pretty much wrong. And a bug can be kept in a small environment, but it is still a cage, and it would go free if it could as well, maintaining ABSOLUTELY NO connection to a human. This applies for a good number of other creatures, so I'm failing to see how this is even an argument anymore.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 1:07:24 GMT -6
Ok, maybe it isn't cute, but it is certainly cooler. There is no doubt about that. Actually, there's no "certainty" here. It's all subjective. I "dodged" it because I never made the statement upon which you based your point to begin with. It was a straw man. They're original to me which is all that matters. No, I could not think of a pokemon like dunsparce because my creative mind is not wired that way. It's just that simple. Let's take a look at something that is objectively true: humans look for things that they do not have. Take what men look for in wives as an example for this situation. No man is going to marry a woman they know everything about or think just like them because the relationship would be boring. Humor, security, and fondness are caused by two humans complimenting each other in traits they do not have. That's why there's not one model of wife men like. Some may like bleach blonde women who are sluts, and others might like more quieter women who are averaged weight. You cant possibly say one woman is objectively better just like you cant say one pokemon is objectively better. For a bug, however, a cage does not restrict its natural traits. Bugs live in small environments, and cages do not infringe on the nature, allowing man to care for bugs. The cage is not the issue here. Stunting the nature of the animal is. And a man can easily care for a bug because the bug's nature of environment is smaller than that of man's. A bird's is larger which makes man caring for something who's nature is more wild than it unnatural.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 1:07:47 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 13 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 4 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Meow on May 18, 2009 1:37:56 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 14 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 3 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
A bird that freaking kicks people?! It would totally be awesome if it wasn't the evolution of something cute (Cute things should stay cute, damn it!), and if it wasn't fire. Fighting / flying would be an amazing combo, fire / fighting is just lame.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 2:07:34 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 14 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 10 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Meow on May 18, 2009 4:59:01 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 15 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 10 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 10:17:11 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
A bird that kicks people? That's ridiculous! (or not... it actually exists in the real world.) And it doesn't stay cute because it follows a natural order of things. Babies are cute, teens are more cool, and adults are normal (or in this case totally awesome). It just seems like you are pulling random stuff just to support your unfounded dislike. Either that or you two have some weird contempt for all things natural.
And I'm gonna stop arguing with Common, he refuses to see someone else's point of view. "They're original to me which is all that matters." There's no way to counter an argument like that, even with all the best arguments in the world.
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Post by Meow on May 18, 2009 12:13:22 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 10 Mr. Mime - 16 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Ernie, I respect your views, and I can understand why you think that Blaziken is cool (Not Zapdos though, I truly hate that guy), but I just don't like them. It's not to be annoying or anything, they just don't appeal to me.
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Post by Hellfire on May 18, 2009 12:14:44 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 11 (+) Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 9 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 12:33:05 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 11 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
You can't understand why Zapdos is cool? You think lightning is cool, right? How about birds of prey, the fastest animals on the planet? Do you think flight is cool?
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Post by Hellfire on May 18, 2009 13:44:20 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 (+) Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 13:58:04 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 14:27:09 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 14:31:22 GMT -6
And I'm gonna stop arguing with Common, he refuses to see someone else's point of view. "They're original to me which is all that matters." There's no way to counter an argument like that, even with all the best arguments in the world. Or maybe you realize your position is wrong. Favorite pokemon is SUBJECTIVE. You're the one talking as if everyone has to like your pokemon. I dont care if you like Zapdos, you're entitled to your opinion. Dont just go around trash talking others for liking something you dont like. You have no points, never did. Your arguments were "He's cool because... HE'S COOL!" which is circular, unfounded, and... SUBJECTIVE.
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 15:34:47 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
I had plenty of points that you seemed to have looked over. Because when you decide that all that you think is what matters, there's no point.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 16:36:02 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 17:28:42 GMT -6
Ok, if you're going to accuse me of upholding my belief that individual opinion should be respected then ok. Ok. I'm guilty. Yes, I think opinions are important, and someone shouldn't bully and insult others into agreeing with them.
And what points? That jagged pokemon are cool and that everyone should like zapdos based on his jaggedness? I'd think anyone who is mature would realize the importance of respecting others' opinions when it's subjective and not call people unusual. Let's take a look at my arguments you've shirked from and your fallacies, shall we?
First off, you said "your tastes are really weird, and not natural" in reply #149. But what constitutes being weird? It's not following minority opinion. But according to this game and a quick look at the majority's favorite pokemon suggested you're the one who's weird.
But you've just shirked from that point, haven't you? I dont agree with your point, but I can show that you've defeated yourself with it.
Second, you've committed numerous poisoning-the-well fallacies and appeals to the majority. When you can not find any basis to defend your subjective opinion you've called us weird. So you've reduced yourself to insulting your members. You also said you would not debate with me because I obviously dont listen to other people's points of view, which is actually the stance I am debating with you right now. You're the one who's not accepting people's opinions when it contradicts your own and try to ruin other's reputations to achieve victory. And last, you've said numerous times our tastes were unnatural. So what? The majority opinion is not necessarily correct. If it were the music you listen to would be weird. Rap and hip hop are the most popular music forms in society. You're weird.
Third, you're a hypocrite.
You admit right there that people can favor other pokemon for alternative reasons than majority rule. So if you think this is true why do you constantly belittle our opinions and call those who disagree with you unnatural? You speak tolerance when it supports your view, but lash out when it conflicts.
Also, you contradict yourself again when it comes to "cool" and "cute" in reply #154. "Ok, maybe it isn't cute, but it is certainly cooler. There is no doubt about that." You already said people can like things for a variety of reasons so why does "cool" trump "cute"? Oh I know why. Because it supports your subjective argument.
Fourth, you make numerous straw man arguments. I said: I like pokemon I dont have the mindset to create. You said: "Just because you didn't conceive it doesn't mean you couldn't have." The pokemon you like are not really all that creative because "Wooper is based on an actual animal, the Axolotyl, and Delibird is based off of Santa Claus and penguins, Ditto is an amorphous blob that any 4 year old could have come up with, and Paras is a bug with mushrooms (and the other ones I mentioned earlier). You fail to see that a lot of these Pokemon are not totally original by your definition" I said: It doesn't matter because creativity is also subjective. I could not have created the pokemon so to me it is creative
Right there you claim that the pokemon I like are not really all that original but that's not even the point I was arguing. (though your logic would eventually fall apart as well) I was saying that I like pokemon I cant create, and you said a four year old could create some of them. So what? You created a straw man as well as poisoned the well in one argument. Two fallacies.
Let's take a look at a real life analogy again, shall we? Say your mother knows how to cook and clean and take care of you. But there are obviously people/women with superior skills than her. Do you love those women more? According to your logic of absolutes you'd have to.
In conclusion, favorite pokemon is subjective, and you cant go around bullying others who disagree with your opinion. You're the one who thinks his opinion is the only one that matters and have committed gross errors in logic to support your claim. You're not tolerant, you're a hypocrite, you insult, you appeal to the majority to win your battles when you have nothing, you poison the well, you create straw men, and you quit instead of facing the reality that opinions are important, even if they disagree with you.
I on the other hand have not made a single "objective" argument that dunsparce is better than any other pokemon. I have only said I liked it because I think it's creative. I said I respect your opinion that zapdos is your favorite because I respect people's opinions. I still eliminated it because it's my least favorite, and part of the game, but not once did I throw a little tantrum and make baseless insults and attempt to limit people's opinions to align with my own. You dont like dunsparce? Ok. I respect that though I will keep him alive in the game. I wont, however, insult you or your subjective opinions.
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 21:30:19 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Ok, I'm sorry. You're right, I guess I just overreacted because I like birds so much and I think I made some decent arguments as to why. I still don't like the reasons you are eliminating my Pokemon for, but it's your choice and I can't convince you otherwise. Please forgive me and let at least one of my Pokemon advance to the finals.
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Post by commonyoshi on May 18, 2009 22:09:15 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Its cool you like birds. I like Golduck so that one will probably be around for a while. My favorite bird pokemon is probably Farfetch'd and Dudrio is surprisingly cool as well. I still dont like Blaziken though.
Edit: Oh wait. Delibird is my favorite bird pokemon. ^_^
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Post by Erniewan on May 18, 2009 22:36:30 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Yeah, I like those too. Tell me, what makes you like those better?
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Post by commonyoshi on May 19, 2009 2:33:18 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 8 (+) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
I cant keep a straight face while looking at Delibird which is why I like him. He's even been set as my phone background. Dudrio is just a cool idea, probably the only three-type pokemon to pull it off well. (Magneton, or Dugtrio) Farfetch'd is pretty funny in the anime. He looks ridiculous too.
And I'm not opposed to having stupid discussions about which pokemon are "best" so long as it's clear that at the end of the day everyone's opinions are respected. You could say "Zapdos could eat dunsparce for breakfast", and I could say "I'd eat Zapdos at KFC". It's all be in good fun.
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Post by Erniewan on May 19, 2009 11:08:15 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 15 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14 I have a Delibird and he had like one gift move... does he get any more? Also Zapdos would eat all your Pokemon for breakfast (except Delibird maybe). And cook them first too.
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Post by Meow on May 19, 2009 11:37:44 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 16 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 7 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Common: Dodrio not Dudrio :3
Ernie: Nope, just present. Best move ever! And Zapdos couldn't cook Wooper =]
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Post by Erniewan on May 19, 2009 12:36:39 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 16 Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 6 (-) Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 2 (+) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Are you kidding? He'd be the easiest to cook! He's already soaking with water so he'd conduct electricity well, and he's even got little antennas making him easier to hit.
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Post by Meow on May 19, 2009 13:41:51 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 17 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 6 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 7 Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 (-) Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
He's water/ground, so he gets immunity from the angry Zapdos.
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Captain Planet
Shodan {1st degree}
[M:10200]
He's a hero![ss:District Court No. 76]
Posts: 2,620
Likes: 3
Favorite Mafia Role: flying octopus
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Post by Captain Planet on May 19, 2009 14:02:10 GMT -6
Gastly - 5 Scyther - 12 Mr. Mime - 18 (+) Arcanine - 7 Dunsparce - 6 Delibird - 20 Wooper - 6 (-) Ditto - 9 Paras - 3 Ninetales - 5 Blaziken - 1 Skarmory - 10 Golduck - 11 Pikachu - 9 Mewtwo - 9 Jigglypuff - 5 Charizard - 14
Did anybody else picture Mr. Mime and Jynx as a couple? I know as a kid I did.
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